Skip to main content

tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  March 14, 2013 1:00am-2:00am PDT

1:00 am
the big finish tonight, a big personal and professional announcement. msnbc will be expanding its weekend programming and this opens a big opportunity for "the ed show" and my brand. i will be leaving this time slot at 8:00 p.m. eastern and moving to saturday and sunday from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. i want you to know that i raised my hand for this assignment for a number of personal and professional reasons. my fight on "the ed show" has been for the workers and the middle class in this country. this new time slot will give me
1:01 am
the opportunity to produce and focus stories i care about and i know are terribly important to american families and american workers. i am proud of the work our team has done here at 8:00 but i have to tell you, sitting behind this desk five nights a week just doesn't cut it for me. i want to get out with the people like i did in wisconsin. i want to get out and tell their stories all over the country. this show has been a show that has been a voice for the voiceless. that really was my mission when i came here to msnbc and it remains. i'm going to be here at msnbc for a long time. i'm not going anywhere. i invite all of you to join me saturday and sunday from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. this will start in april. i will continue to do the radio show. my goal is to do the radio show until the good lard takes me. that's going to be seven days a week.
1:02 am
there will be days off, but it won't be 13 and 14 hours a day. that's the good news. i'm looking forward to doing it, i hope you will join me. i hope you will be back here tomorrow night. the "rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, ed. i love you, man. hearing you say it that way and knowing you are going to be putting up a flag on the weekends makes me happy we have you for the long haul. god love you. thank you. >> i appreciate that. it's work i want to do. it's something that needs to be done. there's a lot of stories that are in my wheelhouse that i want to tell and getting that to people is a big part of this. i'm going to be here for a long time. i appreciate the opportunity to do this work. it's been great working with you. i'm going to bug you to be on the "rachel maddow show" show quite often. i'm not going anywhere. >> you will be here and i will be on the ed schultz show.
1:03 am
>> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. wow. the big news in the world today, obviously is the important story not just for the world's more than 1 billion catholics. it's a big story for everyone and everything influnszed by the catholic church. we learned the new pope will be the former cardinal jorge mario bergoglio. as of today, he is pope francis, francis i. this is different this time around not only because this is the first south american pope and the first jesuit pope, this is also different because of the very special circumstances that ended the reign of the last pope. the last pope is still around. pope benedict is now pope emeritus. because he ended in resignation not death, it has not happened in 600 years.
1:04 am
the former pope will be around and living on the grounds of the vatican as the new pope takes over. we have the retired pope, pope benedict and the new pope, pope francis. much more on the new pope and what we know of his history and what it means for the church and the politics of the church this hour. that, of course, is the big world news story today. domestically, the big news story is the big political news that just happened here on this network. >> what is your name and what are you all about? >> my name is scott prouty. i'm a regular guy, middle class, hard working guy. you know, i think i would like to think i have a good moral compass and a core and i think i have a little bit of empathy. i think i have more empathy than mitt romney had. i don't know how to describe
1:05 am
myself, but i was behind this whole thing. i was bar tending that night for the romney fund-raiser. >> my colleague, ed schultz just broke the news tonight of the biggest unanswered question. the biggest remaining unknown of the presidential election cycle we just had. the romney fund-raiser scott prouty was talking about what where mitt romney made the infamous remarks that shook the campaign to the core. it affected the course of the whole election. >> there are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. 47% with him who are dependent upon government who believe they are victims who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, you name it. my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them that they should take personal responsible.
1:06 am
>> before tonight, we did not know how we got that tape or the identity of the person who made the recording. it was a man named scott prouty, who was bar tending at that event. we did not know his motivation. we didn't know why he did what he did or whether he acted alone. now we know all of those things and what he thinks today of his actions. tonight on the ed schultz show, we learned he is a registered independent. he was not politically active before this. he acted alone. he acted without malice aforethought. he took a camera to work because nobody told him he shouldn't. nobody told him he was not allowed to bring a camera into the room. the second reason he brought the camera is a man named bill clinton. listen.
1:07 am
>> did you know you were going to record him? >> you know, i did -- i brought the camera and a lot of other people brought cameras, like i said thinking he would come back and take pictures. clinton came back with the staff and took pictures. that was really my thought. i hadn't really made up my mind. i was willing to listen to what he had to say. i was interested in what he had to say. i didn't go there with a grudge, you know, against romney. i was more interested as a voter. >> mr. prouty worked at a previous political fund-raiser where bill clinton was the speaker. because bill clinton at that fund-raiser came back after the fund-raiser and met the staff and talked to people and shook hands and took pictures of people, he had his camera on hand in kasz it happened with mitt romney. that did not happen with mitt romney. having the camera there resulted that a different outcome.
1:08 am
a fascinating thing we learned is it was not actually the 47% remarks that motivated him to go public with the recording. it was something mr. romney said earlier before he got to the 47% thing. >> when i was back in my private equity days we went to china to buy a factory that employed 20,000 people, women between the ages of 18 and 22 or 23. >> it was that anecdote, that casual reference to buying a factory in china that scott prouty said made him sit up and take notice. this recording that he was making just for himself, for a souvenir of the evening might end up being a politically important thing. the way mitt romney was talking on the campaign trail, he realized was not the way romney was talking at private meetings. he never could have imagined
1:09 am
mitt romney telling the public these stories about shopping for factories in china with horrible work environments. ultimately, what this guy was doing, what he was doing in private was not the same thing as in public. this every day guy, a political bartender heard that and decided this recording he was making was important and he had to go public with it. he thought everybody should know what mitt romney thought about issues like this. what he thought when he was talking behind closed doors. when he was talking behind closed doors to people who could afford to get into a fund-raiser like that. >> the people there that night, they paid $50,000 per person for dinner. you know, i grew up in a blue collar area in boston and nobody i know can pay, can afford to pay $50,000 for dinner. i don't know anybody that can do
1:10 am
that. in a way, i felt like, you know, whether you are a republican or an independent, there's a lot of people who can't afford to pay $50,000 for one night for dinner. i felt an obligation, in a way, to release it. i felt an obligation for all the people who can't afford to be there. you shouldn't have to be able to afford $50,000 to hear what the candidate actually thinks. >> all the people who can't afford to be there, you shouldn't have to be able to afford $50,000 to hear what he actually thinks. we learn in the exclusive interview, despite being shocked at what he saw and feeling the obligation it needed to be shared with others, so people with $50,000 weren't the only ones to hear it. he knew the implications. he was worried about being found out. he was worried about getting his
1:11 am
co-workers or the company he worked for in trouble. he considered not putting the video out. he considered keeping it in the drawer where he stashed it after the fund-raiser and where it stayed for a couple weeks until he decided he had no choice. >> there were times i went back and forth a little bit. i woke up in the middle of the night one night and i was, you know, in the darkness of my house looking out the window and thinking about it. i walked into the bathroom and i looked in the mirror and the words, you coward, came out of my mouth. i said you are a coward. you are an absolute coward because i was leaning toward not putting it out. it kind of came out of my mouth. i, you know, i went back to bed. i said that's not going to work. i'm going to put it out. i'm going to be proud i did it. i'm going to do it to the beth
1:12 am
of my ability and make sure as many people as possible hear it. at least when i turned the corner, i felt good about it and like i was doing the right thing. i went down the path and never looked back. >> went down the path and never looked back. mitt romney called his 47% remarks unfortunate. after standing by the remarks, he's talked about them a number of ways since. he told fox news what he said that night hurt his campaign. what he said that night is not what he actually believes. it is difficult to say if this was the deciding factor in the election. there's a lot of polling on that question. it's hard to say for sure. the man who made the recording agonized over the decision of whether or not to release it. we know he did not walk into the room politically motivated. he got motivated by what he heard in that room. that is how something he recorded for himself, something to be a souvenir to show his
1:13 am
girlfriend or a camera to have on hand in case he met romney to shake his hand. that was an important factor in who would be the leader in the most powerful nation on earth. an unaffiliated guy, acting on his own. it's a remarkable story. joining us now is david corn. he went to david with the story because he read and respected david's reporting. he knew he would do right. david, thank you so much for being here. this is a big day in the story. >> it's great to share this evening with you, rachel. i was on your show the night the story broke. i think it's great people out there, millions who wondered who recorded the video could see scott present himself in his own words about what he did. the great thing about the video itself. i have been doing journalism many years.
1:14 am
this was sort of unimpeachable fact. people can watch the video and decide for themselves what they made of it. it required no analysis. it was reality. a slice of reality. now we see scott on "the ed show" talking about why he did that. another slice of reality. you can have the full story of what led to this video. no secrets or tricks. he's able to get the credit he deserves. >> what can you tell us about the decision to go public. scott prouty decided to go public now and say who he is. he decided not to do it at the time of the election. did you engage with him or have insight on what he felt about the decision? >> there was a lot of angst. i have a story up on the mother jones site that goes into that.
1:15 am
this is more his story to tell than mine. during the campaign, before the campaign was over, you know, media folks were coming to me, trying to reach him or reaching him making all sorts of offers if he would go public some involving money and other benefits. he time and time again said he didn't want to make himself the story. he didn't want to distract from mitt romney's own words. also, if he went public, he would be a bulls eye on his target. rush limbaugh would try to make him the story. i don't know if there's dirt on him. didn't seem that way tonight. i think it's hard to stay in the shadows. when everyone is talking about this. imagine the conversations you must have in this situation with people around you. god, did you hear about the tape? did you see it on the news? you have to say yeah, i'm kind of familiar with that when you want to say it was me.
1:16 am
also, he described he was not in the best financial straights. he's a working class, college educated bartender. he put his job on the line. he had to worry about his own future. he was living month-to-month in terms of paying for his apartment. he had real concerns about his future. i also think in the thrust of all this, he and i wondered whether there would be recriminations that he more than i that we would have to worry about. there was one night i said you know, there's a sedan parked in front of my house that i have never seen before. i said it half jokingly. he said there's a suspicious car outside my house, too. there was a lot going on in his life. it was a big event and he couldn't share it with a lot of people. that makes it more difficult. >> learning tonight it was him acting alone, he didn't go in with any intention of doing this. he planned on having the camera in case there was an opportunity
1:17 am
for a souvenir. he didn't work with strategists on this or working with a campaign. >> that's what's kind of thrilling about this story. how much money was spent to try to elect mitt romney president? i don't know, half a billion and a billions. what happened? a working class bartender who was driven ultimately by his passions, values and beliefs because of a 67 clip on a longer tape i don't know if it totally brought romney down, but it made it more difficult for him to win the election. you can have all the money in the world, but one guy with a video camera standing up for the principle of sacrifice and putting himself in the line of fire at some risk. well, look at the impact he had. it's hard to find a corollary to this. >> the impact from his perspective. also, a lot of people who are political pros say in a campaign, steve schmidt talks
1:18 am
about this, working with john mccain. he said a presidential campaign is like an mri. everything that needs to be known about you will be. if you try to have conversations with people behind closed door that is are different than the conversations out in public, eventually the doors open. >> steve is partly right. had it not been for scott, then steve would have been wrong. >> yeah. >> mitt romney would have gone through the whole campaign telling things privately to people that he did not believe and telling something different to the voters. it was a close call. >> a close call driven by a man alone making a decision of conscience in the middle of the night looking in the mirror figuring out what he needed to do for his values. david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones and the man trusted because of his reporting. congratulations, ape gain, thank you.
1:19 am
>> congratulations to scott. >> obviously, that's big news today in american politics. and really big news in the world today is white smoke. the catholic church with great pomp and ceremony electing a new pope. we'll have more on that ahead. stay with us. [ tylenol bottle ] nyquil what are you doing?
1:20 am
[ nyquil bottle ] just reading your label. relieve nasal congestion? sure don't you? [ nyquil bottle ] dude! [ female announcer ] tylenol® cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion. nyquil® cold and flu doesn't.
1:21 am
1:22 am
in washington, it was groundhog day, not in the sense of looking for a shadow to figure out how much more winter
1:23 am
we're going to have. rather in bill murray, waking up in the same pennsylvania town on auto repeat day after day. for the love of andie macdowell we cannot break out and get back to present day. in washington, the calendar says it's march 13. two months in president obama's second term. the headlines make it seem like it's not march 13th and we are stuck in the middle of the last campaign, living it out over and over again like it never happened in the first place. this is a piece of nonsense that happened during the last came pain. it felt like oh, god, this is so stupid. it can only happen during a campaign. this nonsense will disappear. this, in particular could have been from anywhere. this is from the heritage foundation. they used to be a think tank, now they are an extension of the republican party.
1:24 am
obama guts welfare reform. not true, actually. what happened is actually the opposite of that. a bunch of governors asked to have flexibility in implementing the existing welfare law. the administration said sure, as long as the changes you want to make don't weaken the rules on welfare and work. it was republican governors asking, republican governors and democratic governors and the obama administration says yes, provided we protect the welfare and work requirements. republicans decided to lie about it and say the president and the administration did exactly the opposite of what they actually did. he took the work requirements out of welfare. he just wants a free ride for everybody. he's buying votes with the free welfare, obama money. it's not true at all. it was the opposite of what the administration had done. the republicans thought they had something. mitt romney made a campaign ad out of it.
1:25 am
a few days before the election, romney made another campaign ad out of the same untrue thing. it was a lie. it was debunked. it was one of the brighter, more obvious campaigns of a campaign filled with lies. it was the lie you only try in the hottest heat of an election year when you are desperate because nothing else is working. now, bizarrely, in cold, cold march, it is back. republicans are pushing a bill right now in this congress to stop the thing that only existed in mitt romney's campaign ads and was never real. it's not just one wing nut congressman who thinks it's october of last year and campaign lies are true. this week, they are acting on that bill in the house of representatives over the yelling/laughing/yelling/ laughing is not happening and it never happened and was a campaign season lie by their own side.
1:26 am
nevertheless, republicans, today, voted to block this thing that never existed. they voted overwhelming, 246-181 on a party line vote. it's absolutely ridiculous. what could be more ridiculous than legislating against your own lie about welfare that you made up for the last election? actually, there's an answer for that. because it is the other thing they are doing. the obama phone. remember? a 2012 campaign season lie closely related to the free welfare for everyone lie in which president obama is buying votes, not just by free, you don't have to work welfare checks but giving out free phones. free obama phones. what this is actually about to the extent it's anything other than race is a program called lifeline. it's a program started by ronald reagan. it was expanded in the 1990s under president bill clinton. it was morphed by the
1:27 am
republicans in the last election to be an invention of president obama to buy votes. president obama's welfare phones, obama phones. as went the obama free welfare lie so went the obama phone lie in the 2012 campaign. now, in 2013, this week, for some reason, both of these lies are back at the same time. they voted today on the welfare lie and republicans are acting now to ban the dreaded ronald reagan phone, i mean the obama phone. get rid of the program that existed since the 1980s. it was never controversial before they called it to obama phone. the free welfare lie and the return of the obama phone lie. apparently, they were too much fun to leave in the last year. in addition to that, the big thing they are fighting about in washington is the paul ryan budget.
1:28 am
it's the same budget paul ryan and romney ran on in the election when they lost with the weaknesses that caused them to lose like taking a hatchet to health care and the generous tax cut to the rich that somehow pays for its. what you want details? you know better than that. this is groundhog day in republican politics. soon, they are going to float hillary clinton is going to replace joe biden as vice president again. all of this stuff, the welfare lie, the obama phone lie. the kill medicare budget that we don't have to explain, trust us. it's republicans trying to get traction on stuff they did not get traction on before when they were busy trying not to lose in the november elections and they lost anyway. in that election, it was actually the democrats who really did get traction on part of that issue. it was democrats who did get traction when this tape showed the republicans real argument on this stuff and all the naked
1:29 am
behind closed doors glory. the republican's presidential campaign showing 47% of the country was accustomed to voting. romney saying 47% of the country never mind them. this president has bought their votes with all the free obama welfare stuff he has been giving them. that tape is now back in the news in part because we know now, thanks the ed schultz tonight who got that tape and how he came to release it to the rest of the world. but, are we condemned to groundhog this thing forever? are we going to groundhog day this thing forever? is this still the terms on which the republicans and white house, the republicans and the democrats are fighting in washington? not just on the petty stuff, but on the big issues, too. this is what every day in politics is like now? >> steve is joining us.
1:30 am
he's a senior writer for good to see you here? >> good to see you, too, rachel. >> the man behind the 47% video did not ever have to reveal himself, ever. he did tonight with ed schultz. do you think the republican party is still struggling with the meaning of those comments, even with mitt romney out of the picture? >> absolutely. we have seen several signs of this all along. if you remember, when it first broke, there was a school of thought that maybe, if you want to give mitt romney the benefit of the doubt in the tape, he didn't think there were tape recorders and talking to a group of elite, super affluent donors telling them what they want to hear. that theory went out the window when he had a conference call talking about the free gifts obama showered on constituencies.
1:31 am
the mitt romney with the 47% tape is the real mitt romney. look at the paul ryan side of it, the makers versus takers rhetoric before. look at the budget. this is a budget line item by line item that is consistent with the message romney was delivering in the 47% tape. this is fitting the social safety net, voucherizing medicare, shipping back aid to the poor to the states, massive tax cuts for the wealthy. the very sort of thing that was supposed to be the dividing line between obama and between the republicans in the election last year. the thing with the election was supposed to settle. as you say, this is basically, with a few cynical accounting tweaks, this is basically the same thing paul ryan put out in 2011 and 2012. >> what about the smaller stuff
1:32 am
that is surfacing at the same time? what do you make of the resurfacing of the obama welfare lie and the legislation that passed in the house today, the free obama phone lie and the other particularly racially charged elements of the republican thesis from the campaign that democratic voters are moochers. >> if you look at the map, if you look at it nationally, there are enough votes for the democratic coalition to win the popular vote fairly comfortably in a national election. there are enough votes in the big states that decide for the democrats to win big states and big senate races. when you break the country down into 435 house districts, the democratic vote is so concentrated in metropolitan areas and the republican vote so spread out over suburban areas, you create a permanent republican house.
1:33 am
the demographics of the districts in the house districts do not match the demographics nationally, they are not evolving the way the rest of the country is. they are much older and much, much whiter. it's the republican primary, not the general election that determines who is going to represent them. all the messages, the people who represent the districts and go to washington were immune to what happened in november. it's not going to happen in their district. it's not going to happen anytime soon. the battle is playing out in hundreds of districts across the country, put that garbage out there and preserve yourself and insulate yourself from republican primary challenge. >> it's the kind of thing that makes you feel like republicans needing to talk face-to-face is not going to be the key to these dilemmas. steve, co-host of "the cycle"
1:34 am
thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the thing that makes me crazy and the president meeting with republicans in the house today and the senate tomorrow, oh, that will make everything better. no, it probably won't. really probably won't. if you wonder why having a jesuit pope from argentina from francis means in practical terms, there are answers. hold on.
1:35 am
there is no mass produced human. so we created the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number experience. a collection of innovations designed around a bed with dualair technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs - each of your bodies. you'll only find sleep number at one of our over 400 stores nationwide. where queen mattresses start at just $699. and right now enjoy the lowest prices of the season on our most popular bed sets. sleep number. comfort individualized.
1:36 am
1:37 am
the entire world got photo bombed today. the perpetrator was this guy, a seagull looking to rest before heading out to presumably look for more fish. his perch, that piece of pipe is the catholic churches special vessel of mass communication. he's perched on the bat signal. it's a important piece of real estate. hundreds of millions of people
1:38 am
watched that bird while they waited to see what kind of smoke, if any, was going to come out of that sistine chapel chimney. yes there's a twitter hashtag, papal seagull. public interest in the birds was dashed when the smoke changed color. habemus papam. in the end, seagulls ended up being a novelty. soon to be forgotten. we'll have much more on the headliner, pope francis i, coming up. this is flo. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone.
1:39 am
i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service.
1:40 am
1:41 am
in papal history, there have been johns, there have been pauls, there have been john pauls, there have been leos and buy us and innocence and alexanders and nicholas' but there's never, ever been a francis. there's never been a pope francis until today. today, after two weeks of not having a pope at all, after five rounds of voting and burning the papers with their votes recorded on them, today, the conclave of 150 cardinals elects one of their own to be the pope.
1:42 am
they picked jorge mario bergoglio, a jesuit from argentina. he's the first jesuit pope. he's the first pope to hail from south america. he's the first non-european pope in 1,000 years. the former cardinal bergoglio was born to italian immigrants in argentina. he got a respiratory infection when he was little and doctors removed one of his lungs. he's had one lung most of his adult life. his plans were to become a chemist. at the age of 32, mario bergoglio decided to become a priest. he became a ranking jesuit in argue tina at the time of the cold war in the '70s. jesuit and catholic leadership
1:43 am
with complicit with it in words and deeds. bishops apologized for not doing more during the dirty war to save lives. they did deny having anything to do with human rights violations in their country. in the late 1990s, he was promoted from priest to archbishop of buenos aires. it's a big leap up in the ranks in the church. by the time he was cardinal, cardinal bergoglio was considered a serious candidate for the job himself. he finished second back in 2005. back in argentina, he's known for his lifestyle, he lives simply, in a small apartment in downtown buenos aires. he lives simply and cooks for himself.
1:44 am
he takes the bus rather than the chauffeured car. he talks of the impact of globalization. he called out priests who would not baptize kids born to unmarried parents. at the same time, they describe him as unwaiveringly opposing abortion, same-sex marriage and contraception. in 2010, when backing a gaye marriage bill, he wrote a letter to the government saying this, let's not be naive. this is not a simple political fight, it's an attempt to destroy god's plan. he's also denounced gaye people being able to adopt children as discriminatory to the children. there's that. new pope today was described by some as a moderate, but he's
1:45 am
more frequently described as a conservative. somebody who has a conservative line in his country who is important in latin america at a time when it was important for the church to resist the song of liberation theology. >> the installation mass for the new pope will be on tuesday. vice president joe biden, a devout catholic will be there on behalf of the united states government. in a few weeks or a couple of months, we're not sure, the old pope will come back. the old pope will return from his vacation home. yes, this is the first pope francis, the first jesuit pope and the first pope from south america. nothing makes the jaw drop more than two popes at the vatican compound. they are sharing the earth, sharing the vatican and sharing this papal secretary.
1:46 am
this is a very famous, very handsome papal secretary. history was made today, for sure. as long as the pope emeritus is around, history will keep getting made as long as that arrangement is maintained. hold on, there's more.
1:47 am
[ heart beating, monitor beeping ] woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ] man: a few inches of water caused all this? [ heart rate increases ]
1:48 am
woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you -- including the fact that a preferred risk policy starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen.
1:49 am
1:50 am
>> translator: i announce to you, news of great joy, we have a new pope. >> we have a new pope. joining us now from rome is jason horwitz, a staff writer, thank you for staying up to be with us. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> here is the first very, i guess practical question that i have. the church went through something unprecedented, something that hasn't happened in 600 years. pope benedict stepping down for reasons of age. he was chosen at age 78. pope francis was chosen at age 76. was his age not a factor or does it tell us of the contours of the choice by the church?
1:51 am
>> the short ansz is we have no idea what the factors are. it's a conclave and we have no idea what the political things were. they were looking for somebody they want to be pope for 25 or 30 years. with benedict, there was the idea that it was somebody who people would call home, a place to call their pope. this wasn't going to be the big shift in the church. there are parts of bergoglio or francis i that makes you think it's a shift. >> he's spoken out about the issues of poverty, globalization, not to be hypercritical, serve the poor and not afraid of dealing with those on the lowest socioeconomic end of the spectrum. he's been outspoken about gay
1:52 am
rights, contraception. do we know what he's likely to prioritize among those issues? >> i think that -- he does walk the walk when it comes to the vow of poverty, right? that's probably why he took the name francis. francis of assisi. he walks the walk when it comes to orthodoxy. he's stylistically different. when it comes to ideology, he's an echo of benedict. you are not going to see much change there. i think his priorities are kind of going to be more about rome, is my guess and that he's away from rome. he's an outsider. when we think in american politics, we think of reformers or left to right. it almost doesn't relate here. the way they are looking at things as an outsider versus an insider. it's about the beaurocracy and management and who can change
1:53 am
things. maybe you need somebody from the outside and attract people from the outside. that's why i think, they went with him. >> do we know about his relationship with benedict? in this one usual situation, benedict will be around and we don't know how the pope emeritus will be. do we know how they have worked together in the past? >> when he was bergoglio, reports were he was second in the running in 2005 in the conclave and was the choice of the more progressive. i use that word very loosely in the conclave for, you know, the alternative to ratsinger. he had a decent amount of support, but it clearly wasn't enough and he steam rolled him. it's the most interesting part of their relationship.
1:54 am
we know right after he was elected, he gave the former benedict or emeritus benedict a call and he's going to meet him tomorrow. you are right. the amazing thing is going to be you have two popes in the same vatican. >> incredible. 600 years. longer than any of us have been talking about this. it's unprecedented isn't the word, even. jason, thanks for helping us understand this. i appreciate your time tonight. >> thanks. all right. on the topic of gun violence, there are reports in the news today or a potential important shift by the unlikeliest power player possible. we have that story just ahead. stay with us. issues like a squirrel stashes nuts, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® liquid gels. nothing starts working faster than zyrtec® at relieving your allergy symptoms for 24 hours. zyrtec®. love the air.
1:55 am
1:56 am
1:57 am
at around 9:30 this morning, officials in mohawk, three hours north of new york city responds to a fire. they found this two-story home engulfed in flames.
1:58 am
the individual who owns the house was not around. he drove to a barbershop, armed with a gun. he killed two customers inside the barbershop and killed two more. he left the barbershop, his house on fire and went to an oil change shop, gaffy's oil lube. he entered with a shotgun and started firing. when the smoke cleared, two more people were dead. after shooting up the lube, he holed up in this building. he left his car parked outside. when police officers discovered it, he started shooting at them. this is the man that police believe went on that shooting spree. he's described at a loner. police remain in a stand off
1:59 am
with that suspect who is still holed up in that building. this multiple shooting happened a short distance from another mass shooting in the town of webster. that was christmas eve. a 62-year-old gunman set fire to his house in webster and ambushed the firefighters who arrived on scene. he killed two and injured four others. yesterday, one of the firefighters injured in the shooting testified by a congressional gun violence forum in washington. today in washington, moms demand action for gun sense in america descended on capitol hill to add their voices. there's political pressure for congress to act on guns. all this pressure coming from proreform groups and victims of gun violence. there's continuing incidence every day of shootings in this country. new york is just the latest. joe from "the new york times"